WASHINGTON — Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, and one of his party’s most outspoken hawks, and Tucker Carlson, a right-wing media personality and a vocal isolationist, were unlikely to see eye to eye when it came to whether and how deeply the United States should involve itself in Israel’s bombing campaign against Iran.

So it came as little surprise when Carlson turned an interview with Cruz into a chance to challenge him on the topic, berating the senator for his bellicose rhetoric and suggesting he was ignorant about Iran.

The confrontation reflected a bitter rift in President Donald Trump’s coalition, between hawkish Republicans like Cruz who back aggressive action against Iran and an “America First” coalition including Carlson that is warning against further entangling the United States in the Middle East.

“You’re a senator who’s calling for an overthrow of the government and you don’t know anything about the country!” Carlson told Cruz during a heated exchange on his program that he posted on social media Tuesday night. Carlson, who has warned against American military involvement in the Middle East, posted his full interview with Cruz Wednesday.

“I agree with Tucker on 80% of the issues,” Cruz said on own podcast Wednesday as he reflected on the testy interview. He added, “On foreign policy, Tucker has gone bat-crap crazy. He’s gone off the rails.”

The confrontation began with Carlson quizzing Cruz about his understanding of Iran’s demographics, starting with whether he knew the population — even a ballpark figure. Cruz confessed he did not.

“You don’t know the population of the country you seek to topple?” Carlson said, adding: “How could you not know that?” (The CIA World Fact Book estimated Iran’s population at 88.4 million people last year; Carlson put the figure at 92 million.)

Carlson Asks Cruz About Ethnic Makeup

After they argued whether it was a relevant statistic, Carlson asked Cruz if he knew the ethnic makeup of the country. Cruz said it was mainly Persian and predominantly Shiite Muslims, then blew up when Carlson asked what percentage.

“OK, this is cute,” Cruz said as Carlson continued pressing him. “OK, I am not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.”

(Persians are Iran’s majority ethnic group. The country is also home to large populations of Azeris, who are estimated to make up as much as a quarter of the population, and Kurds, who are believed to make up as much as 10% of the population. Shiite Muslims make up the majority of Iran’s population.)

The interview came as the United States is weighing whether to join Israel’s effort to obliterate Iran’s nuclear program with a bombing campaign. In the last several days, Israel has inflicted considerable damage to Iran’s uranium enrichment center in Natanz and its laboratories in Isfahan. But it is unlikely that it will be able to strike the enrichment center at Fordo, which is buried deep in a mountain, without the firepower of U.S. bombs.

On Tuesday, Trump took to his social media platform to call for Iran’s “unconditional surrender” and hinted that the United States could assassinate its supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Trump also raised eyebrows when he wrote “we” — not Israel — now had “total control” of Iranian airspace.

During his interview with Carlson, Cruz echoed that language, saying, “We are carrying out military strikes today.”

Carlson seized on the pronoun. “You said Israel was,” he interjected.

“Right, with our help,” Cruz retorted. “I said ‘we’ — Israel is leading them, but we’re supporting them.”

“Well you’re breaking news here,” Carlson said, noting that the White House had previously denied that the United States was acting on Israel’s behalf.

“This is high stakes; you’re a senator,” Carlson added, barely holding in a grin. “If you’re saying the United States government is at war with Iran right now, people are listening.”

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This article originally appeared in The New York Times.

By Karoun Demirjian
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